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Diet & Nutrition Tips on eating healthy and eating enough. What and how much you eat can make a huge difference in building muscle & improving performance.


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Default 04-27-2008, 03:19 PM

Quite the opposite DD. When you go to sleep your body's tissues are in overdrive repairing, dividing, and all together active at a very high rate. Not only does your metabolic rate increase, your oxygen intake increases, your growth hormone levels increase etc etc. Think about it, all the microdamage you do to your body everyday has to not only be repaired, but repaired to better than what it was before to try to adapt to the stimulus.

The whole only eat carbs early in the day, late in the day etc etc is over exaggerated in my opinion. What's gonna matter is the total carb intake during the day, along with fat intake, protein intake and even more important total caloric intake and expenditure. You will not manipulate gaining or losing FAT (muscle tissue may be a different story) by macronutrient timing throughout the day. I would look up all the abstracts and studies I've read over the years, but I'm trying to get all my graduation stuff done, ya know?
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Default 04-27-2008, 04:44 PM

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Originally Posted by Jordan566 View Post
Quite the opposite DD. When you go to sleep your body's tissues are in overdrive repairing, dividing, and all together active at a very high rate. Not only does your metabolic rate increase, your oxygen intake increases, your growth hormone levels increase etc etc. Think about it, all the microdamage you do to your body everyday has to not only be repaired, but repaired to better than what it was before to try to adapt to the stimulus.

The whole only eat carbs early in the day, late in the day etc etc is over exaggerated in my opinion. What's gonna matter is the total carb intake during the day, along with fat intake, protein intake and even more important total caloric intake and expenditure. You will not manipulate gaining or losing FAT (muscle tissue may be a different story) by macronutrient timing throughout the day. I would look up all the abstracts and studies I've read over the years, but I'm trying to get all my graduation stuff done, ya know?
I know you've got important school things to do but below I'm posting two links of MANY that I found that support my theory and teachings but I haven't found ONE yet that reinforces your theory of metabolic increases during sleep. Again, I'm not as experienced with all this fitness info but I stand my ground on this one until proven wrong.

http://ltc.cit.cornell.edu/courses/ns421/BMR.html

http://www.sleepdex.org/sleep.htm


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Default 04-27-2008, 08:51 PM

DD, not to be critical, but why did you post that? The first one just explains what BMR is, which is just how many calories you burn in a day, if you were not active. And the second one is saying you repair tissue when you sleep. Awesome.

If you got hooked up to a metabolic cart, you would see what your average intake of 02 is, and and what your average calorie used per minute at rest is...relative to that days previous activity or inactivity and any thermogenesis from food at the moment.

If you stayed strapped up to the same metabolic cart and went to bed, you would see that your 02 intake increases slightly, because tissue needs more oxygen to repair itself during your state of rest, and similarly, the amount of calories you expend while sleeping, would be higher than when you were just sitting there awake.

What you may have misunderstood from me, is that I'm not saying you burn more calories when you sleep than when you run, well actually that is partially true, but the EPOC in the 2hrs post excercise trumps sleep there, but I AM saying that you spend more calories when you sleep, than when you sit on the couch awake.
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Default 04-27-2008, 09:31 PM

Would it not be safe to say then that is why they recommend eating a lean protein source particularly in the form of some caseins protein. Since it is relatively slow digesting and hence your body's metabolism is in repair mode making it run faster for repair, that eating a lean protein source is one of the keys before bed so your body does not become catabolic on itself It uses the protein you eat so your body can repair itself more efficiently.

Would that be a fair statement.


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Default 04-27-2008, 09:51 PM

That would be semi-accurate. But i think why they say that is to just contrast a casien shake against a whey shake. To put a better example (IMO) you would not want to eat a sugary meal before bed, because that will spike insulin, supress glucagon, and since tissue is alerady being synthesized, might as well make some fat eh?

Personally, I have no found a difference in eating a a lean protein like tuna or chicken versus a slower digesting one such as steak or other red meat. What would I really avoid before bedtime? NOT EATING....that would be one of the worst things to do. But I'm intense...haha
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Default 04-28-2008, 05:29 AM

I did not necesarily mean casein shake but more toward like cottage cheese

But you are saying you would eat before bedtime right. That is what I am getting from that last statement of yours.

You gotta realize Jordan I really try to listen to your diet advice. I can tell multitude of guys out there how to get big and pack on lots of muscle it is the fine tuning of diet that I sometimes struggle with.


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Default 04-28-2008, 07:15 AM

As I stated, these are just two of many that I found and were the simplest to find the answers.

Yes the 1st is a BMR table plus some....Line 11....Fasting/Starvation: Fasting/starvation hormones lower the BMR. I'm no scientist but when you sleep, you are fasting. This causes your BMR to be lowered for two reasons IMO. One..no intake, less work for the body, less calories used...Lower BMR Two..hormones are released all the time through you body, these hormones tell you brain, slow down the digestion and metabolism to conserve energy where needed.

As you stated, the running vs. sleeping example although a little much due to the wide spectrum between the two activites still shows that 7 hours of sleep produces just over half of what one hour of running does. Now if you slowed down the run, you still wouldn't burn more through 7 hours sleep as you would walking. If your example earlier was correct that our body functions all speed up then we would be expending as much energy in our sleep as we do during the day.


I've got to get ready for work, I'll touch on the other link late.


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Default 04-28-2008, 10:39 AM

If you are starving/fasting while you are sleeping, that means you need to eat closer to bed or in the middle of the night. It will halt your progress IMO.
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Default 04-28-2008, 11:17 AM

Fasting is a term used for abstaining from food. Now if you want to set an alarm to get up in the middle of the night and eat that's fine but I'm not. I eat a small protein source one to two hours before bed and as most people do, I "fast" for X number of hours until I wake and eat breakfast.... which means "break--fast."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fasting


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Default 04-28-2008, 11:21 AM

Lee, there are a lot of bodybuilders out there that during competition prep will set there alarms for times during the night and wake up to eat a protein meal. That is on the extreme end of the training however. Mere Mortal men should not have to do that.


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Default 04-28-2008, 11:29 AM

Link number 2 as you stated is about the repairs our body goes through and even though as the exerpt I pulled out shows these are theories, it clearly states as do other articles that I found right here on the world wide web, sleep lower's a person's metabolice rate and energy consumption.

Scientists have proposed the following theories on why humans require sleep:

Sleep may be a way of recharging the brain. The brain has a chance to shut down and repair neurons and to exercise important neuronal connections that might otherwise deteriorate due to lack of activity.
Sleep gives the brain an opportunity to reorganize data to help find a solution to problem, process newly learned information and organize and archive memories.
Sleep lowers a personís metabolic rate and energy consumption.

http://www.sleepdex.org/sleep.htm

Jordan, I don't want you to take my challenge the wrong way because I do respect your efforts to help me, others like me, and others who have the opposite wishes from mine. We will have to agree to disagree on this matter until you can provide me with material backing your believes. I've seen several posts by you where others have asked you to provide them with something to hang their hat on so they can rely on your info but you're always too busy. Well me, it took me 10 min to find these links and 10 others like them.


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Default 04-28-2008, 11:33 AM

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Lee, there are a lot of bodybuilders out there that during competition prep will set there alarms for times during the night and wake up to eat a protein meal. That is on the extreme end of the training however. Mere Mortal men should not have to do that.
I agree and that is my point. Not all of us are here for competition. Some just want to learn the right and wrong. There is no magic answer in this endevour that we are all on or we would walk around looking like champion bodybuilders. Weight lifting, excercise, and diet are all 95% personal experience and opinion. What works for one will not always work for another and that is the point that society misses.


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Default 04-28-2008, 06:39 PM

Alright, here are some admittedly shitty sources (I do not like non-medically published works that aren't peer reviewed), but looking up actualy sources on JSTOR or MOBIA is way to time consuming for me.

At any rate, http://www.journal-a-day.com/Health_...-fat-loss.html .... talks about how REM sleep is 70% of your daily BMR, where physical activity is 20, and TEF (thermogensis of food basically) is 10. This is a bit overexaggerated for my tastes but you get the point. So, as put out there by this article, your metabolism has to increase at night, to account for the 70% of total daily BMR.

Next, is this source
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/502825 .... which describes what happens when people are deprived of sleep to their hormones and metabolism. This is usually the best way to figure out physiological pathways, by looking for problems in one and the resultant. Basically, if you are sleep deprived, nutrient deprived while sleeping (from not eating enough throughout the day, or having no food to derive energy from during sleep) your cortisol levels will rise, and not return to their normal level like usual, TSH (for the thyroid) will decrease, as will growth hormone, these latter two being very important to overall metabolism and tissue synthesis.

I am done on this subject, for now, hope I helped.
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Default 04-28-2008, 08:41 PM

As I stated earlier, I still think we will have to agree to disagree because I feel some of Link 1 research is a little flawed. I don't see physical activity only being 20% of daily caloric burn. My BMR is approx. 2800 for my weight with my physical activity adding another approx. 1500 to that for a total daily caloric need to maintain my current weight. Now with my goal being weight loss vs. bulk then I have to stay below that total 4300.

Points made in Link 1
Metabolism is the rate at which the body applies energy to back up the basic mathematical functions essential to keep up life. This metabolism is consisted of three component parts, which include physical activity (20%), Thermic Event of Nutrient, also named TEF (10%), and Resting Metabolism Rate or REM SLEEP (70%). Physical activity is the amount of energy your body burns up during normal, daily activities to include housework, diversion, work, workout, and so on.

Finally, the RMR adverts to the figure of calories the body demands to run its essential mathematical functions, as well as chemical substance reactions while in a rested state.

I couldn't open link 2 because it said I need a username and password. It would make since however if you deprive yourself of needed sleep then your metabolism would natural slow down. That's why adequate sleep is so important.


Again, Jordan and anyone who has read this. I'm not trying to be disrespectful by questioning your comments but I'm more the type of person who would rather be taught than told adn would rather teach others than tell.

All to often do people talk about what "THEY" say. I get tired of hearing what "THEY" say and would rather hear what you've learned or experienced and in such a manner that I can relay it to others w/o having to say because "THEY" said so.


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Default 04-28-2008, 10:15 PM

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All to often do people talk about what "THEY" say. I get tired of hearing what "THEY" say and would rather hear what you've learned or experienced and in such a manner that I can relay it to others w/o having to say because "THEY" said so.


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Default 04-29-2008, 12:46 AM

DD. I think you have your metabolic rate calculated wrong. Your BMR that you calculate based on activity levels throughout the day is your total caloric expenditure besides a workout. For instance, my BMR is approx 3100kcal. On a not very active day, that might by 2600kcal. An hour long workout thats intense, is valued around 600kcal, plus cardio and well you get the point.


I don't know what you are disagreeing about with me? I don't take it offensively at all, as I am in the same boat as you. I, however, am going to school for this so I learn who they are, and why THEY say the things THEY SAY.
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Default 04-29-2008, 07:56 PM

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DD. I think you have your metabolic rate calculated wrong.
I was going more approx. numbers in my post but based on this post by Loaf, (http://forum.illpumpyouup.com/showthread.php?t=8427) and the automated figures posted by fitday.com I was actually going lower than what my projected numbers should be for my wieght which is around 5500 to sustain this weight.


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