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Reload this Page Steriods: Worth the Risks??
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Default agreed - 09-28-2011, 08:04 PM

I agree with you Ouija and the supps now are giving the natural guy enough push to have that classic look guys had back in the day. I've seen some great natural guys coming up now.


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Default 09-29-2011, 12:17 PM

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Originally Posted by Bigmix View Post
I agree with you Ouija and the supps now are giving the natural guy enough push to have that classic look guys had back in the day. I've seen some great natural guys coming up now.
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Originally Posted by ouija View Post
You know why I can't knock guys loading up on steroids and why I don't praise guys taking OTC supps instead. OTC supps are pure and simple just trying to do what steroids do. People wanna get big, some are willing to break the law and boot up, some want to stay legal and swallow 100 pills instead.

I'll tell ya what tho, theres guys taking tons of stuff that look like crap compared to guys that run simple hdrol cycles or something.

Really though, the consumers/fans are really what drive the industry. As "natural" shows gain steam, even the juiced side of the game will start going away from the mass monster to the classic look. Sure guys will be big, but the more people start saying, WTF, the more it's gonna change. With social media being so big, it's easy for the guys at the top (the weiders/mag editors, promoters, NOT the athletes) to keep their finger on the pulse of BB. Money talks, the sport will ultimately go where the people want it to go. With Phil up top, we're already seeing that sure we want big guys, but we want them to look "right". That's why guys like Vic and Kai will never win an O, hgh guy = death sentence, people are only willing to take so much.
Ouija-
I agree with some of what you wrote.
I agree that the companies will go where the money is, but people still want to see freaky muscles more these days than the classic look. That is why so many people are following IFBB pros and not natural shows? They like Phil cause he is huge and has symmetry! Kia won the Arnold twice, and Vic just needs to come in dry and dial in! But yeah, people I think are maybe starting to not like the whole huge gut thing.

I disagree with you and Bigmix on the natural issue.
The supps and OTC stuff can't do what juice does, unless you are taking prohormones that are really designer steriods. Having said that, that is where you are seeing "natural guy enough push to have that classic look guys had back in the day. I've seen some great natural guys coming up now."
The big natural guys that don't take prohormones that are designer steriods being banned left and right, and are truly legit are far and few between.
The big "natural" guys you are seeing or have "seen" aren't really "natural" per se. Natural to me IMO is the ability to say "I have not used illegal, illicit, or prescription chemical enhancements to get cut or bulk up."
The "natural" guys you are seeing are competing in the NPC and Muscle Mania shows that have lax drug testing.
Random testing, 1 year drug free, random polygraph (a joke), and just testing for steriods is an example.
I am doing an NPC tested show that doesn't test for designer steroids, prescription duiretics, thyroid medications, anti-estrogens, HGH, peptides, insulin, surgeries, synthol, metabolites, ephedrine, masking agents, amphetamines, or IGF-1 injections. (Lots of options out there)
Also, note that anything that is a biologically ready and available anabolic chemical is a steriod, unlike real prohormones that are precursors and have to mix with your compounds to become steriodal.


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Default 09-29-2011, 05:58 PM

PPL follow IFBB pros cuz they get all the promo spotlight. I'm saying as more people join the ranks of natural BB competitors (which is happening), more fans will come (friends, relatives, fellow competitors), and the bigger it gets, the more potential there is for the sport becoming more mainstream and whatever benefits that may bring. Hell instead of 1 on 1 competition you might see gym vs gym fielding teams. Sure you won't be winning 200k, but you might get a sponsored spot on your gyms team and well, if that gym is fielding a winning team that's gonna boost membership etc etc. The sport is still in it's infancy and we need some leaders to emerge to innovate things like that.

I didn't mean to infer that supps can produce results like the classic days. Todays supps are pushing new limits though. But really, they will always fall short of gear, thus the guys will never be as big, and the natural athlete vs athlete will never be as popular (or as much of a spectacle) as the big guys. This is why we need something like the gym vs gym, or an otherwise new approach to competitive bodybuilding to spark interest and competition that is more widely accepted and marketable.

And if anyone here tries to steal this gym vs gym thing without giving me credit...I'll find you and steal all your protein, drain your uncooked eggs, and I'll overcook all your meat too!


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Default 10-03-2011, 11:02 AM

Just got caught up on this thread, lots of good opinions and statements here. Also, a few things i see not being addressed.

Lets not talk the steroid freak for a min.

1. Many people will see a guy on gear and say "He's only like that because of the gear" when on the other hand do you ever see a guy and say "He's only like that because of his genetics" or see a PLer and say "He can only lift that much because of the suit." If i see i guy benching 800, 900 pounds, He's one strong fella, suit or no suit.

Both are advantages. And truthfully genetics is an advantage that is most fustrating to me. lol, i have friends who party like animals, eat like pigs, and look like freakin cover models. So i can't blame the genetically fat guy if he converts to the "dark side" and start gearing up on Winny or Anavar or whatever.

2. Health Risk

There are health risk in any and everything you do. And those risk rise once you step out of the zone of moderation. But on the other hand, there are health benefits to most things done in moderation. Remember we're not talking about the steroid freak here. Lets look at roids, food, and you body.

Deca- if ran a minimal doseage will ease joint pain greatly. If Carp was on this his elbow would probably be just fine. If done at high amounts will shut down your natural test production hard.

HGH- if run a minimal doseage will allow for the user to experience better sleep and a feeling of youth all over again. Done too high and your bodily organs begin to enlarge and that includes things like you head, fingers, etc.

Wine- Well we all know in moderations helps your heart.

Bacteria- We all know bacteria is the cause of many many sicknesses but your body needs them to help keep you healthy.

Also, there are many many pros who used gear at high amounts and didn't have to sign their will at every dosage. Many of these guys once off the sauce, their bodies are in better shape than thinkable with all the drugs that they pumped.

Case and point, have you seen Mr. 6000+mg of test, EQ, tons of D-bol, Deca, etc lately? AKA Greg Valentino.

3. Honor

Like OTK said no honor in competing againt natural guys when your geared up. Thats like Lebron dunking on a 5th grader and getting hype about it. lol

4. BBing is an unatural sport

People tune in to BBing to be amazed by the human body's ability to grow. Enhancement drugs and bbing go hand and hand and always will. That is what makes the sport interesting. Can you imagine the sport without it? It's like the NBA, people pay good money to see guys jumping out of the gym, pinpoint passing, amazing moves, unreal height, etc. Without that element of "unatural talent" the NBA would be similar to the WNBA. No disrespect to the WNBA. I know some of those chicks.

But even in the natural ranks, the award goes to the freakest looking natural guy. I take Layne Norton for example, this guy is a hard working genetic animal. Youtube him if you've never seen him. But his strength is insane, when he hits the stage all you see is muscle and razor sharp lines and i know without a doubt he can beat several juicers, naturally. But everything about him looks unatural and thats why he is the face of natural bbing.

Now lets look at the steroid freak...

This to me is the guy who has given gear a terrible rep. This is an example, he's about 19-22 yrs old, never took weights and diet serious but wants to be big as a house. What does he do? He starts on the gear. No research, no solid base, prolly 154lbs and wants to be 220lbs of muscle.

He starts on the sauce and is all over the place, no PCT, sides are outta control, etc. On cycle he's 185lbs off cycle he's 150lbs. Just a terrible case.

Or the pro who is shooting tons and tons of gear, synthol, insulin, etc and thinking that they are losing shows because they are not big enough but actually they are not dialing in with their conditioning. And each year they get bigger and bigger and are using more and more drugs and looking more and more visually disasterous.

These are the guys who put gear in the negative light.

Steriods are performance enhancing drugs worth the risk for many people, health wise, career wise, etc. But you must consider what you're enhancing before you enhance it. In the words of my mom "Don't put deodorant on top of stank!" lol, build a solid base before you try to enhance it and use moderation.

Would Phil be the current Mr. O if he had rushed it?

Lastly, don't quote me on this, just my opinion, But i'm sure alcohol has consumed many more lives by way of death or addiction than steroids but it's not considered the "dark side" lol


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Default 10-03-2011, 03:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by emekajokammor View Post
Just got caught up on this thread, lots of good opinions and statements here. Also, a few things i see not being addressed.

Lets not talk the steroid freak for a min.

1. Many people will see a guy on gear and say "He's only like that because of the gear" when on the other hand do you ever see a guy and say "He's only like that because of his genetics" or see a PLer and say "He can only lift that much because of the suit." If i see i guy benching 800, 900 pounds, He's one strong fella, suit or no suit.

Both are advantages. And truthfully genetics is an advantage that is most fustrating to me. lol, i have friends who party like animals, eat like pigs, and look like freakin cover models. So i can't blame the genetically fat guy if he converts to the "dark side" and start gearing up on Winny or Anavar or whatever.

2. Health Risk

There are health risk in any and everything you do. And those risk rise once you step out of the zone of moderation. But on the other hand, there are health benefits to most things done in moderation. Remember we're not talking about the steroid freak here. Lets look at roids, food, and you body.

Deca- if ran a minimal doseage will ease joint pain greatly. If Carp was on this his elbow would probably be just fine. If done at high amounts will shut down your natural test production hard.

HGH- if run a minimal doseage will allow for the user to experience better sleep and a feeling of youth all over again. Done too high and your bodily organs begin to enlarge and that includes things like you head, fingers, etc.

Wine- Well we all know in moderations helps your heart.

Bacteria- We all know bacteria is the cause of many many sicknesses but your body needs them to help keep you healthy.

Also, there are many many pros who used gear at high amounts and didn't have to sign their will at every dosage. Many of these guys once off the sauce, their bodies are in better shape than thinkable with all the drugs that they pumped.

Case and point, have you seen Mr. 6000+mg of test, EQ, tons of D-bol, Deca, etc lately? AKA Greg Valentino.

3. Honor

Like OTK said no honor in competing againt natural guys when your geared up. Thats like Lebron dunking on a 5th grader and getting hype about it. lol

4. BBing is an unatural sport

People tune in to BBing to be amazed by the human body's ability to grow. Enhancement drugs and bbing go hand and hand and always will. That is what makes the sport interesting. Can you imagine the sport without it? It's like the NBA, people pay good money to see guys jumping out of the gym, pinpoint passing, amazing moves, unreal height, etc. Without that element of "unatural talent" the NBA would be similar to the WNBA. No disrespect to the WNBA. I know some of those chicks.

But even in the natural ranks, the award goes to the freakest looking natural guy. I take Layne Norton for example, this guy is a hard working genetic animal. Youtube him if you've never seen him. But his strength is insane, when he hits the stage all you see is muscle and razor sharp lines and i know without a doubt he can beat several juicers, naturally. But everything about him looks unatural and thats why he is the face of natural bbing.

Now lets look at the steroid freak...

This to me is the guy who has given gear a terrible rep. This is an example, he's about 19-22 yrs old, never took weights and diet serious but wants to be big as a house. What does he do? He starts on the gear. No research, no solid base, prolly 154lbs and wants to be 220lbs of muscle.

He starts on the sauce and is all over the place, no PCT, sides are outta control, etc. On cycle he's 185lbs off cycle he's 150lbs. Just a terrible case.

Or the pro who is shooting tons and tons of gear, synthol, insulin, etc and thinking that they are losing shows because they are not big enough but actually they are not dialing in with their conditioning. And each year they get bigger and bigger and are using more and more drugs and looking more and more visually disasterous.

These are the guys who put gear in the negative light.

Steriods are performance enhancing drugs worth the risk for many people, health wise, career wise, etc. But you must consider what you're enhancing before you enhance it. In the words of my mom "Don't put deodorant on top of stank!" lol, build a solid base before you try to enhance it and use moderation.

Would Phil be the current Mr. O if he had rushed it?

Lastly, don't quote me on this, just my opinion, But i'm sure alcohol has consumed many more lives by way of death or addiction than steroids but it's not considered the "dark side" lol
Great reply.
Yeah some people feel it is worth the risks.


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Default 10-03-2011, 06:32 PM

Word.....word and yes Layne is a freak....One more point most people don't get freaked out over the conditioning of a Natural guy even the casual observer is okay with it. Most women are turned off by the site of IFFBB pros....(No Homo but this is a sport where men mostly admire the freakishness of another man). Will the sport ever be bigger than what it is??? because of the steroids associated with the sport?? Wonder why guys are modeling in shorts at some contest now???? To help bring in more people to the sport??? Ask the average person who Kai Greene is? or Jay Cutler? You may as well save your breath saying Phil Heath.
To each his own with roids!


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Default 10-04-2011, 09:25 AM

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Originally Posted by Bigmix View Post
Word.....word and yes Layne is a freak....One more point most people don't get freaked out over the conditioning of a Natural guy even the casual observer is okay with it. Most women are turned off by the site of IFFBB pros....(No Homo but this is a sport where men mostly admire the freakishness of another man). Will the sport ever be bigger than what it is??? because of the steroids associated with the sport?? Wonder why guys are modeling in shorts at some contest now???? To help bring in more people to the sport??? Ask the average person who Kai Greene is? or Jay Cutler? You may as well save your breath saying Phil Heath.
To each his own with roids!
Pro bodybuilding is not something you will see a whole lot of on TV.
Alot of people look at it like a circus. In someways it is.
I wish it didn't morph into some freakish sub-culture.
Grapefruits (lol), drugs, big ole guts, hooker looking chicks, drug busts, etc.

Not a respected sport by many.


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Default 10-04-2011, 09:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by emekajokammor View Post
Lastly, don't quote me on this, just my opinion, But i'm sure alcohol has consumed many more lives by way of death or addiction than steroids but it's not considered the "dark side" lol
Well there's never been a 100% steroid caused death.
But i do know that aspirin hospitalizies more people than steroids.
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Default 10-04-2011, 10:18 AM

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Pro bodybuilding is not something you will see a whole lot of on TV.
Alot of people look at it like a circus. In someways it is.
I wish it didn't morph into some freakish sub-culture.
Grapefruits (lol), drugs, big ole guts, hooker looking chicks, drug busts, etc.

Not a respected sport by many.
Thats true... but i can't think of any sport that has earned respect. Every sport has it's drama tho.

NBA: moms with players, guns on team mates, no season, etc

NFL: DUI, death, stabbings, drugs, etc

NCAA: illegal money for players, illegal recruiting, everything totally under the table, etc

MLB: steroids, fixed calls, under the table dealings, etc.


The people who bb don't do it for the money, they don't do it for the fame, they do it because they love it.

Leauge minimals pay more than most bber's every see in a lifetime...


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Default 10-04-2011, 11:39 AM

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Originally Posted by emekajokammor View Post
Thats true... but i can't think of any sport that has earned respect. Every sport has it's drama tho.

NBA: moms with players, guns on team mates, no season, etc

NFL: DUI, death, stabbings, drugs, etc

NCAA: illegal money for players, illegal recruiting, everything totally under the table, etc

MLB: steroids, fixed calls, under the table dealings, etc.


The people who bb don't do it for the money, they don't do it for the fame, they do it because they love it.

Leauge minimals pay more than most bber's every see in a lifetime...
Very true and good points!

Yeah if someone if bodybuilding for fame they are in the wrong sport.
I do it cause I feel like I have been called to do it!
Meshes well with me and my talents-(unless I am contest dieting- LOL)


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Default 10-04-2011, 12:02 PM

So what about the mid 30's guy, average joe, already settled in life looking for a change in his body...that just hasnt come with everything he's tried. not for the long time fix on the "gear" (I guess that's the terminology) but something to jump start their change.
Would say "Go for it"?
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Default 10-04-2011, 12:20 PM

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So what about the mid 30's guy, average joe, already settled in life looking for a change in his body...that just hasnt come with everything he's tried. not for the long time fix on the "gear" (I guess that's the terminology) but something to jump start their change.
Would say "Go for it"?
Really i think the questions for that guy should be:

Are my goals realistic?

Have i seriously done everything correctly to get me there?

Am i rushing it?

Is my goal worth the risk?

If you are not using gear for career or health reasons, not really sure if its worth the risk imo...


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Default 10-04-2011, 03:59 PM

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Really i think the questions for that guy should be:

Are my goals realistic?

Have i seriously done everything correctly to get me there?

Am i rushing it?

Is my goal worth the risk?

If you are not using gear for career or health reasons, not really sure if its worth the risk imo...
98% of steroid users are average guys looking for an edge and bigger guns to take the the bar lol.

But you're right Mek, you've got to be real with yourself and do what you can before you start relying on drugs.

And Tim, BB has always been a subculter sport. At the peak of Arnold's BB career, only a few hundred people knew who he was (hell I think the attendance of the 75 olympia was 300ppl or so). It was his movies that put BB on the public map, not his achievements on stage, and as a result, the fitness industry for the average joe was born.

Even though it's a highly competitive sport, you don't see the kind of competition on stage you do on a football field, at least to the layman. That's why BB as it is now will never be mainstream.


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Default 10-09-2011, 12:14 AM

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgopPV3a8wM"]Dear John Witherspoon: "Steroids" - YouTube[/ame]

oldie but goodie...


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Default 10-09-2011, 10:01 AM

That is classic!!!!! As funny as it is...there's a valid message in there to a lesser degree.


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Default 10-09-2011, 06:49 PM

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We are on nearly the same page Tim. Except I could give a rats ass about hair anymore...it's over-rated!

I look at people I know that are on and often think the same thing as you...yet I have no real qualms with it. I have witnessed some half-assers though that have respectable size/strength and know they are on, but if they were as dedicated as I am, I know they would look better. Or that said, I wonder where I'd be if I were to get "on" myself.

I have toyed with the idea, but I'm a minimalist. I just want to keep progressing and I honestly think with my natural test levels on a natural decline, that progression is pretty much not going to happen in most areas of my lifting. I don't want any part of HGH and if I ever did anything illegal, I'd like it to just be test alone with a once a week stick. Nothing more. But many reasons stop me. My kids are one major reason and for the mere fact that both like working out and I feel like I'm deceiving them if I do it and don't tell them. Then if I do tell them, they are going to think it's okay and I don't want either one touching it til they are over 25 yrs old.

Did I ramble enough?
Rick go see your doc, you can legally take test if your blood work indicates so. Stay away from orals and UGL's
My kids watch me at times when I stick myself. It's all about education. It's use not abuse, And yes once a week is the best route. Let me know buddy if I can help in any way.





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Default 02-29-2012, 03:11 AM

Nothing wrong with instituting test into ones life along with HGH. Most of us know that as we age both of these hormones diminish in our bodies. NOTHING is going to replace them except for the exact components. I have been firing test cyp for 10 years now in a responsible matter. Just enough to keep me at the level of a 16 year old kid. I take HGH for the same reason, at some point the pituitary stops talking to the hypothalumus ...and at that point we AGE. I'm not the guy who has a 44 year old body looking 44, with the institution of the hormones and proper nutrition and HARD work at the iron there is no excuse NOT to supercede 99 percent of the male population. One thing i like about this board is the bro's that take care of themselves FIRST before trying to fix other peoples equations. There are remidies for gyno and shrunken nuts same thing goes for hair loss. I think the ones that demonize steroids the most are the gov and those that have not investigated for themsleves how beneficial these products are. The whole "natural" concept has me completely perplexed. Nothing wrong with putting back what your creator gave you initially. Side note i'm 44 buck can bang 22 year old with no problem...why? because I have the drive the intensity and sense of well being with test along with the anti-aging effects of hgh and peptides.


I am not a doctor and I have not had any traditional training. I am a person with information that other people have studied and proven to be effective and wrote in books. I just pass that information on to you.



Rest in Peace Nandi



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Default 03-07-2012, 07:58 PM

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Originally Posted by Ontime View Post
Nothing wrong with instituting test into ones life along with HGH. Most of us know that as we age both of these hormones diminish in our bodies. NOTHING is going to replace them except for the exact components. I have been firing test cyp for 10 years now in a responsible matter. Just enough to keep me at the level of a 16 year old kid. I take HGH for the same reason, at some point the pituitary stops talking to the hypothalumus ...and at that point we AGE. I'm not the guy who has a 44 year old body looking 44, with the institution of the hormones and proper nutrition and HARD work at the iron there is no excuse NOT to supercede 99 percent of the male population. One thing i like about this board is the bro's that take care of themselves FIRST before trying to fix other peoples equations. There are remidies for gyno and shrunken nuts same thing goes for hair loss. I think the ones that demonize steroids the most are the gov and those that have not investigated for themsleves how beneficial these products are. The whole "natural" concept has me completely perplexed. Nothing wrong with putting back what your creator gave you initially. Side note i'm 44 buck can bang 22 year old with no problem...why? because I have the drive the intensity and sense of well being with test along with the anti-aging effects of hgh and peptides.
OH so very very true.


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Default 03-08-2012, 04:39 AM

emek i just read your deca post its funny cause i someone at the gym told me the same thing a few days ago.i actually thought of getting some and do low dose but decided probably not a good idea.


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Default 03-08-2012, 03:31 PM

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Originally Posted by recarp82 View Post
emek i just read your deca post its funny cause i someone at the gym told me the same thing a few days ago.i actually thought of getting some and do low dose but decided probably not a good idea.
Def not a goof idea, run it FULL dose lololollol

I choose equipoise over deca, or if available nandrolone phenylpropionate. Keeps the wood safer


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