IllPumpYouUp.com - Bodybuilding, Powerlifting, & Fitness Find Us on Facebook! Follow Us on Twitter! Follow Us on Twitter! Ad Space Available
Register FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   IllPumpYouUp.com - Bodybuilding, Powerlifting, & Fitness > General Topics > Topic of the Week
Reload this Page Rest Between sets
Topic of the Week Just what it says. Each week we will have a new Topic to discuss. If you have one, feel free to start it.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Rest Between sets
(#1)
Old
RickB's Avatar
RickB is Offline
Admin/IPYU I.T.
RickB has much to be proud of RickB has much to be proud of RickB has much to be proud of RickB has much to be proud of RickB has much to be proud of
 
Posts: 12,669
Thanks: 13
Thanked 36 Times in 36 Posts
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Jacksonville, TX
Send a message via Yahoo to RickB
Thumbs up Rest Between sets - 08-03-2009, 03:57 PM

Reading one of Matt's posts about rest in Mac's thread made me think this might be a good topic.

Here we go.

I'm not sure about the science side of this, but here is my opinion so maybe I'm not so smart

It is my opinion, that you can make better gains taking longer breaks. I like feeling like I'm at my best (usually 3-4 minutes) before I grab that next set so that I can move the most weight possible. Our job in the gym is to tear ourselves down the best we can. And what better way to do it than to move the most weight you can in the repetitions that is your target. If I wait less time, I know for a fact I cannot complete the target reps without dropping the weight.

I will also say this. I also was at my largest/strongest when I split my days up. And you know what's weird is on back day, I saved the DL's until I got home. Many of my days were continued at home where I didn't have time at lunch to get everything in. I have not been doing that for over a year now and I'm no where near as strong or as big as I was.

Matt, this is not in any way meant to disrespect your beliefs. You know I have nothing but respect for you and merely want this to be discussed as it might change my thinking or someone else's.

Let's see. Discuss.
Reply With Quote
(#2)
Old
matt20's Avatar
matt20 is Offline
Moderator
matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future
 
Posts: 3,137
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default 08-03-2009, 04:10 PM

Great topic Rick! No disrespect at all bro! They are exactly what you said, MY beliefs! We need some good debate on these topics.

One point I want to make real quick is that strength is not the only form of overload! People forget volume is as well. The fact of the matter is you cannot always get stronger. If so lots of people would be benching 1000lbs. Lets say you can bench 250lbs for 3 sets of 5-6 reps and you cannot progress anymore. Well you could add more volume to your work and use less weight with shorter rest periods. So instead maybe 6-8 sets of 200x10 reps. OVERALL you would be pushing more weight total. I'm not saying to train this way all the time, but too many people focus only on strength when at times their are other ways to progress as well.

Also I dont want people to think I always lift that way. What me and Mac are doing is lifting heavier in the week, focus on strength gains with longer rest periods like you were talking about. But later in the week we are doing traditional bodybuilding workouts with shorter rest periods and trying to force as much blood into the muscle as possible.

I'll let other people post before I add more


"The worst thing I can be is the same as everybody else" - Arnold Schwarzenegger

"Doubt me, hate me, you're the inspiration I need" - HateBreed
Reply With Quote
(#3)
Old
RoaringMad Mac's Avatar
RoaringMad Mac is Offline
Hulk Administrator
RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute
 
Posts: 14,041
Thanks: 6
Thanked 49 Times in 49 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Margaret Alabama
Send a message via MSN to RoaringMad Mac Send a message via Yahoo to RoaringMad Mac
Default 08-03-2009, 04:11 PM

I go off of feel more than set time, but with that said I still try to make it as short as possible and safely as possible.

Biggest reason, is I believe endurance makes the muscle stronger too. Forcing blood into the muscle by doing heavy weight is still pumping alot of blood into that muscle especially if you are doing more that 3 sets. If you can train yourself to still output good gains and are making good gains by shorter rests then you are training the muscle for endurance just as much and strength. It is my belief this helps in gains. I have always been know for short rest periods. This comes from Strongman lifts as well where you need a good bit of endurance to complete lifts.

I would like Mopar for chime in on this as well.

A good rule of thumb I have always gone by is this:

as soon as the set is done gauge how you are breathing (squats or Deadlifts) heart rate and if you can complete a sentence. You should be able to complete a full sentence before starting the next set. Kinda like target zones in running.

This should be a good topic.


FREE YOUR MIND AND YOUR ASS WILL FOLLOW
Reply With Quote
(#4)
Old
matt20's Avatar
matt20 is Offline
Moderator
matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future
 
Posts: 3,137
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default 08-03-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoaringMad Mac View Post
A good rule of thumb I have always gone by is this:

as soon as the set is done gauge how you are breathing (squats or Deadlifts) heart rate and if you can complete a sentence. You should be able to complete a full sentence before starting the next set. Kinda like target zones in running.
I like that


"The worst thing I can be is the same as everybody else" - Arnold Schwarzenegger

"Doubt me, hate me, you're the inspiration I need" - HateBreed
Reply With Quote
(#5)
Old
recarp82's Avatar
recarp82 is Offline

AX
-Euro Man -
recarp82 is a jewel in the rough
 
Posts: 4,630
Thanks: 0
Thanked 28 Times in 28 Posts
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: been in the uk for 3yrs. hove, southern coast
Send a message via Yahoo to recarp82
Default 08-03-2009, 04:34 PM

my rests are usually between 30seconds on the routine im on now to 2-3minutes on my normal routines.
if i go longer then 3minutes i feel like im starting over trying to get the pump back.
i measured my heart rate after my workout today and it was about 130 after the last set.
i dont mind losing a couple reps for resting shorter periods.i just want to still have the pump when i start the next set.


Controlled labs supps.
Reply With Quote
(#6)
Old
onetiredkris's Avatar
onetiredkris is Offline
The Riot!
Moderator
onetiredkris is a name known to all onetiredkris is a name known to all onetiredkris is a name known to all
 
Posts: 5,320
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Hollywood, California
Send a message via AIM to onetiredkris Send a message via Yahoo to onetiredkris
Default 08-03-2009, 05:14 PM

I'm normally in the gym around rush hour, and it gets way packed (I'll take a pic this evening) so I normally don't get full rests in. (to be courteous to others waiting)

But I feel that I get perfect rest duration when after finishing a set, I change the weight for my brother who is next, let him bang his set out, then put the weight I want back on, then get to my set. And more often then not there is one more random guy working in, giving me even more rest.

The only time I'm really adjusting my rest duration is if I'm keeping it more of a cardio workout focused on burning calories rather than growth. In which case ill rush threw the sets, or run a lap in between sets.

heh I dont really have much opinion on this one
Reply With Quote
(#7)
Old
RickB's Avatar
RickB is Offline
Admin/IPYU I.T.
RickB has much to be proud of RickB has much to be proud of RickB has much to be proud of RickB has much to be proud of RickB has much to be proud of
 
Posts: 12,669
Thanks: 13
Thanked 36 Times in 36 Posts
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Jacksonville, TX
Send a message via Yahoo to RickB
Default 08-03-2009, 06:02 PM

I haven't really ever had my brain latch around the endurance side like Mac and Matt are referring to. But it makes sense!

And this supports what a sales guy came and talked to me about stating he spent 2 months on the P90X program. He said he went back to the gym because he was struggling with motivation working out in front of the TV, and he said he was shocked that he was up 50 lbs on bench. This guys is NOT a BSer, so it should have clued me in on the endurance part of it, but it didn't til now.
Reply With Quote
(#8)
Old
matt20's Avatar
matt20 is Offline
Moderator
matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future
 
Posts: 3,137
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default 08-03-2009, 06:24 PM

I'm not necessarily talking about endurance. I was referring more to total working output. Lost of powerlifters will work in the 50-70% range of their lifts with many sets. I talking as many as 10-12 just on that particular lift. Some programs even call for squatting 3 times a week. The key point i'm trying to make is you cannot constantly get stronger and their are other ways to improve instead of just giving up on that lift.


"The worst thing I can be is the same as everybody else" - Arnold Schwarzenegger

"Doubt me, hate me, you're the inspiration I need" - HateBreed
Reply With Quote
(#9)
Old
madman's Avatar
madman is Offline
Mad Scientist
Moderator
madman is a splendid one to behold madman is a splendid one to behold madman is a splendid one to behold madman is a splendid one to behold
 
Posts: 1,073
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Join Date: Feb 2006
Default 08-03-2009, 06:50 PM

Okay guys…. You know me and science, and here is the science between lots of rest (more than 1 minute) vs. little rest (under 1 minute). When you weight train your body goes into an “anaerobic state” which means that the energy that cells utilize to perform work is gained mainly from a glucose digestion process called glycolysis – which one of the major byproducts is lactic acid. Now, on the other hand – when you are not in an anaerobic state, your body gets its energy through a sugar glucose digestion process called the citric-acid cycle. In other words – when the body goes into “crisis mode” when nearing the point of failure during a set – all of the energy to perform those last few reps comes from glycolysis. During periods of rest between sets, the body is aware that it is an anaerobic state and quickly “sends” for more glucose. The longer you rest AND STILL remain in the anaerobic state (no more than 3 to 4 minutes) will allow the muscle to intake the amount of glucose needed to complete the next set (and more importantly – to re-start the citric acid cycle). If you do not take 3 to 4 minutes of rest between sets, your muscle will not get the glucose that it needs to stimulate the citric acid cycle again – therefore requiring you to continue to rely on glycolysis for energy production. I’m going to interject that the specialized molecules can store energy from the citric acid cycle and electron transport chain – in the form of GTP – kin to the real energy molecule ATP. If you rest a little longer and allow the citric acid cycle to kick in between sets, more of the GTP molecules will be available for energy (they transfer one of their inorganic phosphates to ADP to make ATP) in your latter sets. The obvious downside to this is that for nutrients to be transferred into the muscle cells, requires increased circulation – which means that the “pump” that you referred to will go down a tad to promote glucose delivery to the muscle cell. Hope this sheds some “science light” on the subject.


<img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m293/ashleyscott_2006/madman-IPYU-SIG.gif" border="0" alt="" />
Mike Carolan - A.K.A. - The F'n MADMAN
Reply With Quote
(#10)
Old
matt20's Avatar
matt20 is Offline
Moderator
matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future
 
Posts: 3,137
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default 08-03-2009, 07:06 PM

We went over ADP and ATP along with anaerobic state in my physiology classes. But didnt cover the citric acid cycle. Wish we would have, sounds pretty interesting. I love science so keep throwing it out their if you dont mind I understand the process you are talking about for strength. What are your thoughts of people saying shorter rest periods are better for hypertrophy? I never really understood the point behind it?


"The worst thing I can be is the same as everybody else" - Arnold Schwarzenegger

"Doubt me, hate me, you're the inspiration I need" - HateBreed
Reply With Quote
(#11)
Old
madman's Avatar
madman is Offline
Mad Scientist
Moderator
madman is a splendid one to behold madman is a splendid one to behold madman is a splendid one to behold madman is a splendid one to behold
 
Posts: 1,073
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Join Date: Feb 2006
Default 08-03-2009, 07:27 PM

Well Matt – here you go, and the concept is much easier than nutrient delivery and energy production. So when you take shorter rest periods between sets, your body is sending signals to get more nutrients (mainly glucose) into the muscle tissue – hence more blood in the tissue and more sacromeres being packed into the muscle bundles. These bundles will swell with increased blood flow (kind of like a balloon after being blown up and letting out the air – the balloon will be bigger that it was originally) hence – hypertrophy. Lower rest times means less time for the “sponge” (muscle fiber) to release the blood that is already in the muscle tissue – coupled with the body sending for more blood to deliver glucose – means lots more blood over all in the tissue – meaning YOU ARE PUMPED BABY!!! Hope that helped clarify the difference brother. You know me.... I'm a science nerd


<img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m293/ashleyscott_2006/madman-IPYU-SIG.gif" border="0" alt="" />
Mike Carolan - A.K.A. - The F'n MADMAN
Reply With Quote
(#12)
Old
RoaringMad Mac's Avatar
RoaringMad Mac is Offline
Hulk Administrator
RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute
 
Posts: 14,041
Thanks: 6
Thanked 49 Times in 49 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Margaret Alabama
Send a message via MSN to RoaringMad Mac Send a message via Yahoo to RoaringMad Mac
Default 08-03-2009, 07:51 PM

and we love hearing it, believe me.


FREE YOUR MIND AND YOUR ASS WILL FOLLOW
Reply With Quote
(#13)
Old
matt20's Avatar
matt20 is Offline
Moderator
matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future matt20 has a brilliant future
 
Posts: 3,137
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Join Date: Jul 2006
Default 08-03-2009, 08:18 PM

thanks madman!!


"The worst thing I can be is the same as everybody else" - Arnold Schwarzenegger

"Doubt me, hate me, you're the inspiration I need" - HateBreed
Reply With Quote
(#14)
Old
RickB's Avatar
RickB is Offline
Admin/IPYU I.T.
RickB has much to be proud of RickB has much to be proud of RickB has much to be proud of RickB has much to be proud of RickB has much to be proud of
 
Posts: 12,669
Thanks: 13
Thanked 36 Times in 36 Posts
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Jacksonville, TX
Send a message via Yahoo to RickB
Default 08-03-2009, 09:16 PM

This is great stuff!


Socrates: "All men's souls are immortal, but the souls of the righteous are immortal and divine."
Current Supplements: Protein (varies) - ON Optimen Vitamins - PreSurge Unleashed - SciVation Xtend (Recovery)[FONT=Tahoma]








Reply With Quote
(#15)
Old
RoaringMad Mac's Avatar
RoaringMad Mac is Offline
Hulk Administrator
RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute
 
Posts: 14,041
Thanks: 6
Thanked 49 Times in 49 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Margaret Alabama
Send a message via MSN to RoaringMad Mac Send a message via Yahoo to RoaringMad Mac
Default 08-03-2009, 09:24 PM

Got fire starte HUH.


FREE YOUR MIND AND YOUR ASS WILL FOLLOW
Reply With Quote
(#16)
Old
madman's Avatar
madman is Offline
Mad Scientist
Moderator
madman is a splendid one to behold madman is a splendid one to behold madman is a splendid one to behold madman is a splendid one to behold
 
Posts: 1,073
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Join Date: Feb 2006
Default 08-03-2009, 10:44 PM

The best part about you guys is that you ACTUALLY CARE about why stuff work - or doesn't work and why your body does thing the way it does. I KNOW people personally that don't give a hoot about why or how something works - they just do it to get the result. I know I'm not even close to having even half the answers to why things happen in the human body the way they do - but the good thing is that I have access to many folks that do have a bunch of the answers. Rest assured guys, if I am not sure of an answer, I will always tell you that I am not sure - and that I need to get with one of my professors. You guys rock - and I would never lead you astray....


<img src="http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m293/ashleyscott_2006/madman-IPYU-SIG.gif" border="0" alt="" />
Mike Carolan - A.K.A. - The F'n MADMAN
Reply With Quote
(#17)
Old
onetiredkris's Avatar
onetiredkris is Offline
The Riot!
Moderator
onetiredkris is a name known to all onetiredkris is a name known to all onetiredkris is a name known to all
 
Posts: 5,320
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: North Hollywood, California
Send a message via AIM to onetiredkris Send a message via Yahoo to onetiredkris
Default 08-04-2009, 12:05 AM

great reading guys. muy beuno!
Reply With Quote
(#18)
Old
RoaringMad Mac's Avatar
RoaringMad Mac is Offline
Hulk Administrator
RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute RoaringMad Mac has a reputation beyond repute
 
Posts: 14,041
Thanks: 6
Thanked 49 Times in 49 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Margaret Alabama
Send a message via MSN to RoaringMad Mac Send a message via Yahoo to RoaringMad Mac
Default 08-04-2009, 07:11 AM

and that is why myself and Rick get so depressed when you are not here. LOL.

A wealth of information more than some I might add who call themseleves gurus of exercise and nutrition.

You know I don't know shit and don't even try to act like I do. I constantly learn everyday. what is so funny is I'm even learning alot not from Matt, and I remember when he just started out in all of this and he has surpassed me by leaps and bounds. Go figure. LOL. this is what I like ,learning about it as well, and then applying it. You are the guys that keep me going.

Every thing I've every learned or accomplished in lifting weights has pretty much been trial and error. now, I've had good guidance along the way and I pretty much listen to my body but having a source of information from you guys really makes me feel pround now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by madman View Post
The best part about you guys is that you ACTUALLY CARE about why stuff work - or doesn't work and why your body does thing the way it does. I KNOW people personally that don't give a hoot about why or how something works - they just do it to get the result. I know I'm not even close to having even half the answers to why things happen in the human body the way they do - but the good thing is that I have access to many folks that do have a bunch of the answers. Rest assured guys, if I am not sure of an answer, I will always tell you that I am not sure - and that I need to get with one of my professors. You guys rock - and I would never lead you astray....


FREE YOUR MIND AND YOUR ASS WILL FOLLOW
Reply With Quote
(#19)
Old
MoPower440's Avatar
MoPower440 is Offline
Senior Member
MoPower440 is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 132
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Join Date: Jul 2009
Default 08-05-2009, 09:57 AM

Well for me I try to keep the rest short as possible it seems to work for me.The only thing is when I lift heavy on squats or deads I tend to take a little longer.The time mostly is going to be changing the weights maybe a trip to the water fountain and a few deep breaths.I believe the body can be pushed futher than most people take it.Mind over matter.Your most alive when close to crossing the line.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com